Space and Time

By:  Greg
March 22, 2012


For how do we know of these things we call time and space but for our consciousness?
but for our consciousness how do we know of time and space?

What other evidence is there that they exist besides the fact that we exist as well?
what other evidence is there?

In a universe like this one though–so vast, so intricate, so logical–it seems rather vain to think space and time might be constructs of our consciousness.
there's no way they're the same

Indeed, our consciousness is so prone to errors, so fraught with flimsy intuition, so founded on analogy rather than causality, that these strange loops we call an “I”, “me” or “self” must not be the constructors of such perfect notions as space and time.
slaves to space and time

Instead the strange loops must actually be slaves to space and time.
strange loops are too fraught with errors

This makes our consciousness no less amazing (in fact, it may make it even more amazing since it is clear that whatever “it” is, it has understood and adapted to space and time), but ultimately has led us to realize that the strange loops cannot be used as a proxy for decoding space and time.
we are no closer to the mystery's solution

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Read about the author:   Greg
Enjoy this TR? Read another: TR: The Turn

20 Comments

  1. Jake
    wrote on March 23rd, 2012 at 12:11 am  
    1

    Great piece. Almost entirely over my head, but very enjoyable and well put together. High Five.

  2. DrFunker
    wrote on March 23rd, 2012 at 5:13 am  
  3. Lionel Hutz
    wrote on March 23rd, 2012 at 6:39 am  
    3

    Couldn’t predetermination proceed non-linearly?
    And does space affect time? It would seem to me that while we can’t affect space or time, perhaps they can effect each other….

    • Greg
      wrote on March 23rd, 2012 at 7:12 am  
      4

      Yes it can, but it’s extremely unlikely, and in addition, it appears that IF predetermination is valid, and ALSO time is non-linear, there would be a sensible isomorphism of time’s cadence that makes it linear, and so we might as well call it linear. For instance, our experience certainly dictates a linear progression through the timeline. Moreover, predetermination–if it exists–absolutely evidences (beyond a reasonable doubt, if you will) that the progression through the timeline is linear also. So let’s say the progression is not linear. Well, since consciousness and predetermination both are playing by “linearity”, for literally ALL intents and purposes we can rescale the progression of the timeline by an orientation-preserving isomorphism, and call it linear. Such possibilities prima facie strongly indicate linearity, and with no arguments based on empirical or deductive fact against linearity, a fortiori prove it.

    • Lionel Hutz
      wrote on March 23rd, 2012 at 11:51 am  
      5

      isomorphism is the word of the day it seems.

  4. Steve
    wrote on March 23rd, 2012 at 7:39 am  
    6

    I’ve talked determinism and other such philosophical problems on TSW but never wrapped it so well into a TR. Bravo.

    Infinite time is the only thing keeping determinism from making 100% total sense. So I just ignore that part and focus on the human experience: that free will is most likely an illusion even though our personal experience of conscious thought and will informs us otherwise. In the end, it is all the same experiences either way. :)

    • Greg
      wrote on March 23rd, 2012 at 7:42 am  
      7

      They constitute a benign mystery. :D

      link me up to some of the TRs on TSW where you were working on this. I’m curious to take a read!

    • Steve
      wrote on March 23rd, 2012 at 5:20 pm  
      8

      http://www.thesnowway.com/2010/09/28/choices seems to most likely fit the bill though I have a category containing a few philosophical posts http://www.thesnowway.com/category/philosophy-skiing — none of these mix in TRs though… I am sure I linked in some philosophy to TRs at some point but I can’t think of any off the top of my head.

  5. Talbert
    wrote on March 23rd, 2012 at 9:10 am  
    9

    Greg that was brilliant.

  6. powhounddd
    wrote on March 23rd, 2012 at 12:20 pm  
    10

    Beauty, eh. Well-constructed ideas and well-selected photos put together. Thanks for that.

  7. Christian
    wrote on March 23rd, 2012 at 12:53 pm  
    11

    does this have anything to do with you switching to the new facebook timeline?

    • sam@work
      wrote on March 23rd, 2012 at 5:02 pm  
      12

      “like”

  8. this is
    wrote on March 23rd, 2012 at 2:24 pm  
    13

    this is a provocative piece. Very cool, truly the best yet from you guys..

  9. NS
    wrote on March 23rd, 2012 at 9:06 pm  
    14

    Full on use of a liberal arts education….

    Midd Kid in full effect…..

  10. snowicerock
    wrote on March 24th, 2012 at 10:12 pm  
    15

    Not to mention full on use of the old flipperoo on the chimney sweeper!

    • Greg
      wrote on March 30th, 2012 at 9:38 pm  
      16

      Think of it as an isomorphism of space and time

  11. bushman
    wrote on March 25th, 2012 at 8:22 am  
    17

    ok, after reading that, feeling the need for multi-hour drive to Jay for new snow tomorrow to catch couple runs before summer. thanks to all at FIS for great photos of hairy ravines tamed by your crew all season.

    • Greg
      wrote on March 30th, 2012 at 9:37 pm  
      18

      Stoked to hear this provoked a ski trip, I’m assuming you were just trying to get away from the computer you read this on as fast as possible? XD

  12. Ben
    wrote on March 27th, 2012 at 7:56 pm  
    19

    Absolutely marvelous work! The composition was excellent on its own, but the way you used skiing as a backdrop for your discussion was brilliant. wow. More snow cannot come soon enough…

    • Greg
      wrote on March 30th, 2012 at 9:38 pm  
      20

      Thanks Ben! I’m glad you enjoyed “something different.”

      Haven’t heard from you in a while. Hope lifes treating you well…

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